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Henry Thornton - SMERSH: A discussion of economic, social and political issues The Hissink File - 8 September 2005 Date 08/09/2005
Member rating 4.6/5
Just what is a Greenhouse? Is there such a thing as a greenhouse gas?
By Louis Hissink Email / Print

Just what is a Greenhouse?


A greenhouse is a building constructed of sheets of glass which lets solar radiation in (and hence energy) while limiting the loss of that energy to the atmosphere by stopping infrared radiation and presumably by the insulation properties of glass, loss of heat by conduction or convection too. (I expect to be Brignelled on this point but that is a price one accepts, in good humour. Actually to be Brignelled is an honour while to be Lambertised is another matter).


The standard view is that it is glass's ability to stop the infrared energy from escaping that is the principal mechanism of the greenhouse but a critic of the Number Watch has pointed out that it is the limiting of convection which produces the greenhouse effect. Personal experience tells me that the flat I rent in a large apartment building, when internally heated and all doors and windows remain closed, remains warm for quite a period of time, so at the risk of being hoist on my own petard, I might agree that convection might be a plausible explanation for the greenhouse effect.


Not to matter, I like to think through scientific problems myself rather than look up an entry in some authoritative source in a mindless fashion.  This is a common ploy used by the illiterate actually - rather than counter one's argument by counter argument, one is instead confronted with a URL pointing to some other opinion. Debating a robot has never been a satisfactory experience.


I recall from my youth that the greenhouses in the Warriewood district of Sydney's northern beaches all had frosted glass panes. To keep the heat in or because there was a surplus of frosted panes which had an unusual source in the market.


But the crucial fact in the greenhouse effect is that a mechanical filter is in operation - mechanical because the gas inside the greenhouse has been physically isolated from the rest of the earth's atmosphere by the glass roof and walls of the greenhouse. Take this filter away and the gas previously constrained by the greenhouse is now free to disperse into the rest of the gas, or the atmosphere.


So is there such a thing as a Greenhouse gas? No. The reason a greenhouse works is because two phases of matter are in physical contact - a solid shell of solid SiO2 encapsulating a gas, thus quarantining that gas from the rest of the gases of the atmosphere. However no gas is capable of physically stopping energy from escaping to space as a greenhouse effect - hence there is no such thing as a greenhouse gas. An obscure concept but clearly one invented by the scientific illierati in the Gang_Green camp.


To assert so is also to advertise an appalling ignorance of geophysics. You see, while CO2 might absorb a small part of the thermal spectrum, being a gas it will re-equilibrate with the other gases and transfer that energy to space. CO2 cannot retain its temperature in the earth's atmosphere. It might in a bottle of soda-water, and then we have the SiO2 as glass, encapsulating the water and dissolved CO2, acting in the traditional greenhouse fashion.


Gases also have a peculiar property of occupying the space in which they occur. On the earth that is limited to the surface of the earth and we now are presented with another enigma. If gases are gases and expand to fill the available space, then why does not the earth's atmosphere of gas disperse out into space?
Constrained by gravity? So one suspects, but with a so-called vacuum out there in space, what stops the gases forming our atmosphere from escaping? After all, all gases, without exception, expand to fill the available space available.


Has your scribe lost his marbles? No, he has always had a sense of uneasiness with the precepts of Victorian, Gas-Light era science based on the mechanics of a science based on Newtonian ideas whose author knew nothing about electricity.


Your scribe suspects that electricity might be force to further study to explain this.

READERS' COMMENTS
 
Subject: Where to begin?
Posted by: James Balfour
Date: 9/14/2005
I do not share Louis Hissink's disdain for knowledge gathered over the years by others, so am able to explain that the atmospheric greenhouse effect, while different from the gas-trapping mechanism of a glasshouse, has a similar impact. The earth is cooler than the sun, so its infra-red radiation back into space is at a longer wavelength. It so happens that this longer wavelength is more readily absorbed by certain atmospheric gases than the hotter sun's visible and near infra-red radiation. Thus the atmosphere heats up. Of course the heat escapes into space, but for thermal equilibrium to be achieved the gases in the atmosphere have to become hotter - in other words the earth heats up. Actually, greenhouse gases make life as we know it possible on earth. Without them, the planet would be much colder than it is. The problem is that the increase in the proportion of certain gases, which many people believe to be the result of human activity, also increases the equilibrium temperature.
Subject: Where to begin? -2
Posted by: James Balfour
Date: 9/14/2005
.... And gravity is perfectly capable of holding gases close to a planet, although there is some gaseous interchange with space at the outer limits. Oh, and sorry to be pedantic, but one is hoist WITH one's own petard - a petard is (or was) a small explosive device used to open doors and it is important to be some way away when it goes off.
Subject: Warming
Posted by: Frank Ashe
Date: 9/14/2005
Louis, next time you try to keep warm on a winter's night by pulling your doona over you think about how this keeps you warm even though the thermodunamic properties of the room you are in hasn't changed at all. Suggest you take a look at a few URLs to brush up on your thermodynamics.
Subject: General comment
Posted by: Louis Hissink
Date: 9/19/2005
My critics appear not, it seems, aware of the effect public funding of science has on the practice of science.

I suspect they, to an individual, voted for Mark Latham last year.

The system denying its own failure?
Subject: Greenhouse Gases
Posted by: Louis Hissink
Date: 9/21/2005
Seems James Balfour misunderstands physics.

He has no idea how a a horticultural greenhouse works.
Subject: I got an A Level in Physics
Posted by: James Balfour
Date: 9/26/2005
I understand how a horticultural greenhouse works, and would not disagree with Louis Hissink's summary, but perhaps he doesn't grasp that the use of the term 'greenhouse' to refer to the effect of atmospheric gases on the planet is not supposed to be taken as an exact parallel. The argument is not whether atmospheric gases affect the temperature of the planet - they do, and the earth would be unlivably cold without its atmosphere - but whether there are changes in the composition of the atmosphere which will adversely impact the world's climate.
Subject: Public funding
Posted by: Frank Ashe
Date: 9/27/2005
Louis, just what are you implying with your Mark Latham jibe of 19th September? And your comment on my awareness of the effect of public funding on the practice of science? You lost me there old chap.
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